For six years, Marc Maron has hosted a podcast, WTF. The show has become so popular and influential that this past summer, President Barack Obama sat down in Maron’s garage — which doubles as his studio — for a chat.
During a discussion at a New Yorker Festival event last month, Maron let the audience know that he had finally secured an interview with his personal white whale, Lorne Michaels. The interview has yet to be posted on the WTF website, but for long-time listeners, the Michaels interview is the most anticipated one in the show’s history.
The Maron and Michaels saga starts about 20 years ago. The executives at NBC were unhappy with Norm Macdonald on Weekend Update, and Maron was brought in for a meeting with Michaels as a possible replacement. Maron has discussed this meeting at length numerous times. In one word, it was “awkward.”
Maron waited about an hour and half — Chris Farley allegedly waited for eight hours — before head writer Steve Higgins brought him into Michaels’ office. Maron had appeared on Conan O’Brien the night before, and Michaels wanted to know if he made people laugh. They sat down at Michaels’ desk where a bowl of candy laid there, tempting Maron. He thinks it’s a test and tells himself, “Don’t take the candy.”
From Maron’s memoir Attempting Normal:
“He was in the middle of a long discourse that I had missed because I was thinking about the candy. He is saying, ‘You know, comedians are like monkeys.’
I laugh uncomfortably.
‘People go to the zoo and they like the lion because it’s scary. And the bear because it’s intense. But the monkey makes people laugh.’
I couldn’t stop myself and I said, ‘Yeah, I guess if they’re not throwing their shit at you.’
It was an awkward moment, more awkward than the rest of the moments leading up to that one. Lorne seemed taken aback for about a second and then commenced to stare directly into my eyes for a very long time. So long that the head writer fidgeted in his chair and laugh uncomfortably and said, ‘Lorne?’
Lorne said, ‘You can tell a lot from someone’s eyes.’
I was in a staring contest with one of the most powerful men in show business. I tried to exude some starness from my face.
Uncomfortable, I took a piece of candy.
As soon as I took a piece of candy I swear to God Lorne shot a look at the head writer that clearly meant I had failed the test. I walked out of their thinking I had ruined my career because of a Jolly Rancher. And I don’t even like Jolly Ranchers. I festered about it for days.’
Maron has actually been festering about it since that meeting happened in the mid-90’s. One of the recurring themes throughout the six years of WTF is Lorne Michaels. If a former or current SNL cast member or writer appears on the podcast, you can guarantee the conversation will shift towards their first meetings with Michaels, their auditions, and thoughts about the white-haired man who controls NBC’s late night programming.
Marc Maron in his garage.
For the most part, SNL cast members have nice things to say about Lorne. They agree he is intimidating, but many consider him a father figure or mentor. They’re grateful for the opportunity he provided them — for many of them, their first big break — but their conversations with Maron further add to the myth that is Lorne Michaels. He has created an atmosphere at SNL that chews up certain people, but also makes many, many people stars.
Maron has been attempting to crack through the mystery for six years by asking other people to retell their stories. He wants to know why he didn’t make the cut; he needs to know. The closest Maron has come to figuring out this answer without asking Michaels himself may have come during an episode featuring Jim Breuer from October 2013. Breuer told Maron about a conversation he had with Michaels after Maron’s awkward meeting. Breuer told Michaels that Maron would be a “home run” as the Update anchor, but would be hard to work with for certain people.
This was the first time Maron had heard that Michaels was actively thinking about Maron after their meeting and up until that point, he had assumed that Michaels was using him as leverage in contract negotiations with Norm Macdonald. Macdonald would be fired a couple years later and replaced by Colin Quinn at the Update desk.
But now, Maron has his interview with Michaels. He has harpooned his white whale and can ask the questions that have been wracking his brain for over 20 years. Maron has been tight-lipped about what happened during the interview. We do know that he sat down with Michaels sometime in early October in New York City, and he has been teasing it since then with some clips with SNL cast members at the beginning of recent WTF’s. But that’s about it.
During the John Mayall episode from Oct. 8, the first episode posted after the Michaels interview happened, Maron says that he has joked in the past that the Michaels episode should be the last WTF:
“Now we have it, and we’re not really sure what’s next. Do you understand? I gotta sleep on this people… I don’t know when it’s gonna air, and I don’t know what’ll happen after it does. OK? I’ll keep you posted.”
Could Lorne Michaels bring about the end of WTF, just like Moby Dick was the end of the Pequod? Surely it would make for an amazing mic drop by Maron, and after having the president in your garage along with the cathartic feeling of interviewing the cause for years of preoccupation, what’s next?
https://youtu.be/GXdRCFfwDaQ
Maron could easily keep WTF going. After six years, it is still one of the most popular podcasts available and its interviews are regularly enlightening and entertaining. Even if he never has to ask SNL cast members about Lorne Michaels anymore, it would still be a must-listen podcast for many people.
Also, it’s not like Maron doesn’t have other people who can fill the void as Maron’s new obsession. Maron has a long-running feud with Jon Stewart that goes back to their days as comedians in New York City. Maron says that he was a “dick” to Stewart, which might be putting it lightly since Maron was obviously jealous of Stewart’s rise to fame in the 1990’s. Maron has stated in interviews that he needs to “resolve that Jon Stewart thing,” but all Stewart has told Maron is he would only be willing to talk over a cup of coffee.
If Stewart won’t visit the garage, there’s more than enough former Daily Show correspondents out there to discuss Stewart. Along with Stewart, Maron has also ruffled the feathers of comedians like T.J. Miller and Michael Ian Black, who could appear in lieu of Vance Degeneres or Stacey Grenrock-Woods and maybe iron out some of their differences. Or Maron could finally get Daniel Tosh to swing by the garage, something he has tried to make happen, but Tosh has repeatedly turned him down.
After six years and over 650 episodes, it might just be time to close the garage or revamp WTF into something a little less time consuming for Maron. Two podcasts a week along with continuing to be a touring comedian, writing books, and starring in his own IFC show (Maron) might make the body weary. Maybe a less grueling schedule for WTF, like one episode a week, could persuade Maron to keep WTF going, or maybe he is thinking that he needs to open up his schedule a little bit.
Maron is a great interviewer and to see him end WTF would be sad. Especially with countless entertainers out there who likely have great stories to share, but haven’t been given an avenue to deliver them, other than a couple minutes on late-night television, or a few inches or pages in a magazine.
The Michaels episode may not have the same global reach as his interview with President Obama, but for fans of Maron, SNL, and comedy, it’ll be the most important interview in the show’s history. And if he decides it’s the end for WTF, he’ll go out on top. He can do it on his own terms, no one will sink his ship except for Maron himself — and if anyone can sink their own ship, it’s Marc Maron.
